Ported headers and up-pipe

With my engine build looming (dropping the car off next weekend actually ) my thoughts are turning to other mods that might be worthwhile doing at the same time.

I've read 'A's post on his RCM tubular manifold and Harvey Smith up-pipe and mighty impressive results! I don't want to go the whole hog and fit a tubular manifold but would it be worth while porting the standard parts?

Thanks,

Neil

I think it depends on what you are looking for power wise, personally I would not have thought it would make to much of a difference unless it was creating a serious restriction.

Who is doing your rebuild?

P4UL wrote:I think it depends on what you are looking for power wise, personally I would not have thought it would make to much of a difference unless it was creating a serious restriction.

Who is doing your rebuild?

Power wise I'm hoping for close to 400 bhp and 400 lbs/ft although I'm not changing the standard turbo so 400 bhp may be a bit ambitious, torque shouldn't be an issue though. My understanding of porting the headers and up-pipe is it should improve spool and start boosting lower down the rev range. Grimm Speed in the US make some pretty bold claims about their ported OEM headers combined with their own link and up-pipes - seems to be backed up by real world feedback. I'm not chasing huge numbers, the car is and will remain a daily driver so driveability and reliability are top of the list. 400/400 (or close to it) should fit the bill all round I would think.

The build is being done by our very own Rob to a similar spec as his own car. Been for a spin in his and it was a hoot!!!

Cheers, Neil

I'm looking forward to it being done too!

400 is a good figure, and will completely transform the car. Would like to go the forged route in the future myself, well before the engine lets go

I think 400bhp is very ambitious on the standard turbo, unless your running 20% methanol. Even then the standard injectors will me maxed.
Apostle's car is probably the highest powered you will see with the standard turbo on vpower.
His headers and uppipe gave very little to top end power but his torque went to another level.

jaypSTI wrote:I think 400bhp is very ambitious on the standard turbo, unless your running 20% methanol. Even then the standard injectors will me maxed.
Apostle's car is probably the highest powered you will see with the standard turbo on vpower.
His headers and uppipe gave very little to top end power but his torque went to another level.

Thats most likely were you are wrong

410bhp 430 ft/lbs on 10% meth on a vf48 with self ported headers and self modified upipe and turbo exhaust housing, stepped up the injectors though to denso 750cc flow matched 2%

Which part was I wrong on?
I'd love to see your graph for that, looks very interesting

being difficult to achieve 400 on a vf48. Easy when you know how

If you read what I said again. I said "standard turbo" and unless your running meth with uprated injectors.
You may well have over 400bhp but as you have stated, you have ported turbo exhaust housing, meth and uprated injectors.
OP is talking about porting headers and uppipe, no mention of modified turbo/ meth mix/ uprated injectors.
Lets see your graph rob, really wanna see how that b@$ch spools.

No problemo I'll get the graph from Andy & post it up so you can have a butchers

Harvey's "special up-pipe" have been aroud for a while in various model guises and do seem to get the results on early spool etc.

His ported std headers on classics ( and maybe newages? ) also worked well.


I'd say for £150 it's worth trying a Harvey up-pipe, unless you can do yourself.


Rob - what did you do to the turbo exhaust housing, match to up-pipe?



PS Harvey is unwell at the moment so don't expect too much response - my mate is buying an up-pipe for my old classic off Harvey at the moment.

Matched to the Up-pipe and also ported to help stop boost creep which is what its done

Rob, why were you getting boost creep? Aggresive map/boost profile?

You are still on std turbo and TMIC at the moment albeit with bigger injectors and your porting exhaust side.. is it a limit of the boost controller?

AEM is mapped in and I guess the other bits too.


I'm fine with mine, but still 370/398 on AndyF laptop and 360/392 on rolling road... but only measure boost via Rev2 now and then .. but it was 22 PSI pre map, not checked since! Job for tomorrow too!!!


Cheers

Neil

'Power wise I'm hoping for close to 400 bhp and 400 lbs/ft although I'm not changing the standard turbo so 400 bhp may be a bit ambitious, torque shouldn't be an issue though. My understanding of porting the headers and up-pipe is it should improve spool and start boosting lower down the rev range. Grimm Speed in the US make some pretty bold claims about their ported OEM headers combined with their own link and up-pipes - seems to be backed up by real world feedback. I'm not chasing huge numbers, the car is and will remain a daily driver so driveability and reliability are top of the list. 400/400 (or close to it) should fit the bill all round I would think.'

For what you're aiming for - I think what you want is spot on.

Yes the porting will improve spool and response, and possibly give another 10bhp + / - and possibly 15lb +/ - . Of course it all depends who does it...

I went with Harvey Smith because he is known to be 'the expert' in this field. His porting skills and his hybrid up-pipe would be the best you can get. lol

Also dont be fooled into thinking you need a full 3' exhaust etc. A new 'wrapped' downpipe is a must, but PPP bits and standard mid pipe will do exactly what you want.

As mentioned the turbo will be the stumbling block. i.e. you can only flow 'so much' air through it.

It is generally acknowledged that 370-380 bhp is the absolute max you'll get from it.

Of course rolling roads vary from 'the conservative' to 'the generous', and Delta Dash readings seem 'always ambitious'.

A fellow Scoobynetter went from Enginetuner r/r to AB Motorsport r/r and gained a full 10% more bhp (from 435 to 478 if I remember correctly).

So numbers aren't everything, but response, reliabilty, quality, and enjoyment are the name of the game.

I don't know if porting the wastegate actually increase flow or just stops boost creep - isn't it the wheel in the turbo that dictates the air passing through ?

I'm sure Rob can answer that for you... or one of the 'experts' who lurk in dark forum corners....

FWIW I'm not totally convinced that you need a caik to get to your goal ? But I'm probably wrong.....

Hope it all goes well for you - is it drop in pistons or are you going to get the block prepped for them ?

A


PS I think its great how so many hatches are going under the scapel for some serious modding. Lots for all of us to learn and benefit from. Cheers

A wrote:For what you're aiming for - I think what you want is spot on.

Yes the porting will improve spool and response, and possibly give another 10bhp + / - and possibly 15lb +/ - . Of course it all depends who does it...

I went with Harvey Smith because he is known to be 'the expert' in this field. His porting skills and his hybrid up-pipe would be the best you can get. lol

Also dont be fooled into thinking you need a full 3' exhaust etc. A new 'wrapped' downpipe is a must, but PPP bits and standard mid pipe will do exactly what you want.

As mentioned the turbo will be the stumbling block. i.e. you can only flow 'so much' air through it.

It is generally acknowledged that 370-380 bhp is the absolute max you'll get from it.

Of course rolling roads vary from 'the conservative' to 'the generous', and Delta Dash readings seem 'always ambitious'.

A fellow Scoobynetter went from Enginetuner r/r to AB Motorsport r/r and gained a full 10% more bhp (from 435 to 478 if I remember correctly).

So numbers aren't everything, but response, reliabilty, quality, and enjoyment are the name of the game.

I don't know if porting the wastegate actually increase flow or just stops boost creep - isn't it the wheel in the turbo that dictates the air passing through ?

I'm sure Rob can answer that for you... or one of the 'experts' who lurk in dark forum corners....

FWIW I'm not totally convinced that you need a caik to get to your goal ? But I'm probably wrong.....

Hope it all goes well for you - is it drop in pistons or are you going to get the block prepped for them ?

A


PS I think its great how so many hatches are going under the scapel for some serious modding. Lots for all of us to learn and benefit from. Cheers

Thanks for the positive comments.

Out of interest, are your headers equal length? Like a fool I was on Youtube earlier listening to a few drive-bys with equal length headers and that snarling exhaust note could very quickly become addictive! You can see where I going with this . . . .

"Thanks for the positive comments.

Out of interest, are your headers equal length? Like a fool I was on Youtube earlier listening to a few drive-bys with equal length headers and that snarling exhaust note could very quickly become addictive! You can see where I going with this . . . ."

Hmmh... whats the in-between term.... 'slightly unequal' they are "I believe".

And tbh less dugga dugga but more snarly opening up to a howl.

I gained 65lb torque through Harvey Smith supplied (and "expertly wrapped") RCM supplied headers and hybrid up-pipe.

A great mod... which is good preparation for the future... because you will want 'just that bit more' eventually....

All the best mate. Let us all know how it all goes

A

A wrote:Hmmh... whats the in-between term.... 'slightly unequal' they are "I believe".

And tbh less dugga dugga but more snarly opening up to a howl.

I gained 65lb torque through Harvey Smith supplied (and "expertly wrapped") RCM supplied headers and hybrid up-pipe.

A great mod... which is good preparation for the future... because you will want 'just that bit more' eventually....

All the best mate. Let us all know how it all goes

A

Thanks mate! I'm hoping to document/photo every step of the way (just need to sweet talk Rob into that!) and will do a journal as things progress.

Are these the RCM headers you've got by any chance? If so then I've seen a clip of those on Youtube, you still know it's a Scooby but on WOT it's a whole different animal!

TBH when they are wrapped ..... they look like ... whatever.

Dump the RCM up-pipe for the Harvey hybrid - gaining up to 500rpm earlier spool and better throttle control.

A

I'm sure I used to play those in the school orchestra.

Rheid

Actually No.... my headers are the 4 into 1 design. Not those in the photo.... they are weird ?

A