Center De-cat Decisions - PPP ECU or Remap

Guys,

Today I have received the centre de-cat that was missing from my car, however the dealer and myself have not come to an agreement over the ECU.

This leaves me with a complete PPP exhaust but no ECU.

If I fit the centre pipe without the ECU is there any chance of sustaining engine damage? if not will there be any notable gains in fitting just this item alone?

I am in two minds to see if I can source just the PPP ECU re-flash from my local dealer or sod it and stuff the remaining warranty and get a remap by Duncan who has already given me a good price and recons on past experience should see approx 350bhp/380 lb/ft

The car has already suffered the ring-land failure issue and a new short engine 2500 miles ago, I am told I had a MY 10/11 engine fitted and had to wait 6 weeks for this to arrive from Japan as IM didn’t have any of the revised engines in stock. I was told the newer engines have revised pistons, so really don’t want this one to go bang!

But from what i read on the net the above is proablay bull

Rob, do you know if I can purchase just the ECU re-flash? This way I would retain my warranty


Jim

Jim

No PPP ECU, thats a big chunk of the system to be without. Can't see there being much of risk with just the 2nd de cat fitted, but given how delicate these engines seem to be its probably not worth the risk.

Everything that i have read suggests even the very latest pistons are exactly the same as the 08 > cars.

Subaru seem to be quite content to keep shelling out for short motors and of course leave all the present owners wondering if theres is the next statistic in this sorry affair

mickp wrote:Jim

No PPP ECU, thats a big chunk of the system to be without. Can't see there being much of risk with just the 2nd de cat fitted, but given how delicate these engines seem to be its probably not worth the risk.

Everything that i have read suggests even the very latest pistons are exactly the same as the 08 > cars.

Subaru seem to be quite content to keep shelling out for short motors and of course leave all the present owners wondering if theres is the next statistic in this sorry affair

Youre proabaly right, not worth the risk without the ECU just need to see if I can purchase the PPP ECU by itself.

Hopefully Rob will be able to advice if this can be purchased separately or may have to go down the remap route but was thinking of extending the warranty due to the fragile engine....

drjim wrote:Guys,

Today I have received the centre de-cat that was missing from my car, however the dealer and myself have not come to an agreement over the ECU.

This leaves me with a complete PPP exhaust but no ECU.

If I fit the centre pipe without the ECU is there any chance of sustaining engine damage? if not will there be any notable gains in fitting just this item alone?

I am in two minds to see if I can source just the PPP ECU re-flash from my local dealer or sod it and stuff the remaining warranty and get a remap by Duncan who has already given me a good price and recons on past experience should see approx 350bhp/380 lb/ft

The car has already suffered the ring-land failure issue and a new short engine 2500 miles ago, I am told I had a MY 10/11 engine fitted and had to wait 6 weeks for this to arrive from Japan as IM didn’t have any of the revised engines in stock. I was told the newer engines have revised pistons, so really don’t want this one to go bang!

But from what i read on the net the above is proablay bull

Rob, do you know if I can purchase just the ECU re-flash? This way I would retain my warranty


Jim

The 09my engine was revised but the pistons are still the same, the crank design was slightly different, However these are still blowing.


You cannot simply just purchase the ecu reflash from prodrive, if you want it you have to buy the whole kit again unfortunately.

Oh crap, that proablay why the dealer hasnt offered to give me the ecu then if he would have to purchased a complete kit.

So the only real cost effective option is a 3rd party remap as I assume there is no benefit in just fitting the link pipe without the ECU?

Anyone know of any reported failures due to a remap on these 08 -10 engines?

As far as i know the ppp map cannot be purchased separately, if it can then I'd guess the cost would make it just not worthwhile, ppp box on it's own is about £900 iirc! Just like the 9k Recaros!

As for Duncan, he worked his magic on mine about 18 months ago and mine with ppp system, intake pipe and Cosworth panel filter gave us about 145bhp and pretty dam good motorway overtaking!

After a bit more searching it seems that the general thoughts are

1. Leave STD with revised stock map, keep warranty, engine still likely to pop ,but free fix
2. As above but with PPP
3. 3rd party remap, no engine warranty, but less chance of pistons letting go

God this is a real tough choice !!!!!

What ever happend to a durable engine..... My last 02 sti was good for 380bhp never missed a beat and done 80k at time of sale

drjim wrote:Oh crap, that proablay why the dealer hasnt offered to give me the ecu then if he would have to purchased a complete kit.

So the only real cost effective option is a 3rd party remap as I assume there is no benefit in just fitting the link pipe without the ECU?

Anyone know of any reported failures due to a remap on these 08 -10 engines?

Theres little or no benefit just changing the 2nd cat pipe without programming the ecu really
No failures reported to date of ones custom remapped, other than mine which was fuel quality issues.

Abz wrote:As far as i know the ppp map cannot be purchased separately, if it can then I'd guess the cost would make it just not worthwhile, ppp box on it's own is about £900 iirc! Just like the 9k Recaros!

As for Duncan, he worked his magic on mine about 18 months ago and mine with ppp system, intake pipe and Cosworth panel filter gave us about 145bhp and pretty dam good motorway overtaking!

If you don't mind me asking what sort of milage have you acculamated

1. Prior to the remap
2. After the remap

I assume youre still on the original engine with STD internals?

drjim wrote:After a bit more searching it seems that the general thoughts are

1. Leave STD with revised stock map, keep warranty, engine still likely to pop ,but free fix
2. As above but with PPP
3. 3rd party remap, no engine warranty, but less chance of pistons letting go

God this is a real tough choice !!!!!

What ever happend to a durable engine..... My last 02 sti was good for 380bhp never missed a beat and done 80k at time of sale

02 sti bugeye had forged internals

Rob wrote:

drjim wrote:Oh crap, that proablay why the dealer hasnt offered to give me the ecu then if he would have to purchased a complete kit.

So the only real cost effective option is a 3rd party remap as I assume there is no benefit in just fitting the link pipe without the ECU?

Anyone know of any reported failures due to a remap on these 08 -10 engines?

Theres little or no benefit just changing the 2nd cat pipe without programming the ecu really
No failures reported to date of ones custom remapped, other than mine which was fuel quality issues.

So what is it that Subaru cant seem to get right that the 3rd party mappers can? surely you would have thought that Subaru would have been very conservitve with the stock map even after the update i still read threads with engine failure.

I suppose the question is what are the mappers changing that Subaru arent?

Rob wrote:

drjim wrote:After a bit more searching it seems that the general thoughts are

1. Leave STD with revised stock map, keep warranty, engine still likely to pop ,but free fix
2. As above but with PPP
3. 3rd party remap, no engine warranty, but less chance of pistons letting go

God this is a real tough choice !!!!!

What ever happend to a durable engine..... My last 02 sti was good for 380bhp never missed a beat and done 80k at time of sale

02 sti bugeye had forged internals

That's why it slapped when cold then!

drjim wrote:

Rob wrote:

drjim wrote:Oh crap, that proablay why the dealer hasnt offered to give me the ecu then if he would have to purchased a complete kit.

So the only real cost effective option is a 3rd party remap as I assume there is no benefit in just fitting the link pipe without the ECU?

Anyone know of any reported failures due to a remap on these 08 -10 engines?

Theres little or no benefit just changing the 2nd cat pipe without programming the ecu really
No failures reported to date of ones custom remapped, other than mine which was fuel quality issues.

So what is it that Subaru cant seem to get right that the 3rd party mappers can? surely you would have thought that Subaru would have been very conservitve with the stock map even after the update i still read threads with engine failure.

I suppose the question is what are the mappers changing that Subaru arent?

when the std form car comes on to boost the afr reading is still about 14.7 which is very lean. typically should be around 12 from my understanding. so when the car is at its heaviest load point I.E coming onto boost it has a high risk of detonation. By simply remapping the ecu the mapper has the ability to richen up the micture to move this lean point away. I suspect this is why the mapped cars last longer

Is the ppp map just pre set settings (if that makes sense)? Compare to a live map, done on the rollers or on the road where the mapper can adjust things as he goes along, Guess different filters, exhausts etc all need their own tweeks here & there to get the best out of the car & so its set up safe & not going to blow up. I had mine done from Paul Blamire of zen performance, he said it was a bit of a bugger to get it spot on!!
Mine had an over heating fault & ended up getting a new short motor, 2 new heads & new turbo under warranty. It had a map in it already which was causing it to over boost, i was lucky that my subaru dealer turned a blind eye to this & just repaired it!

Right i think my minds made up.

Two fingers to Subaru, as far as i can see get a 3rd party and get:

Better MPG
More performance
Nicer to Drive
Option of having a i mode mapped to 95ron for when your in the middle of nowhere
Less likely to fracture ringland if kept below 350BHP

Stick with Stock or PPP ECU

Engine warrenty but likey to pop again..

Has anyone heard of a MY11 car going pop? if not whats changed on them?

drjim wrote:

Abz wrote:As far as i know the ppp map cannot be purchased separately, if it can then I'd guess the cost would make it just not worthwhile, ppp box on it's own is about £900 iirc! Just like the 9k Recaros!

As for Duncan, he worked his magic on mine about 18 months ago and mine with ppp system, intake pipe and Cosworth panel filter gave us about 145bhp and pretty dam good motorway overtaking!

If you don't mind me asking what sort of milage have you acculamated

1. Prior to the remap
2. After the remap

I assume youre still on the original engine with STD internals?

Yes still on original engine, car was 18 months old when mapped with about 9k on and is now 3 years old with 18k.

Hope that helps
Arron

Abz wrote:As far as i know the ppp map cannot be purchased separately, if it can then I'd guess the cost would make it just not worthwhile, ppp box on it's own is about £900 iirc! Just like the 9k Recaros!

As for Duncan, he worked his magic on mine about 18 months ago and mine with ppp system, intake pipe and Cosworth panel filter gave us about 145bhp and pretty dam good motorway overtaking!

Arron, only 145 bhp ...?
Must be a misprint... LOL

I'd bet 345 bhp.
good innit!

drjim wrote:

Rob wrote:

drjim wrote:Oh crap, that proablay why the dealer hasnt offered to give me the ecu then if he would have to purchased a complete kit.


Anyone know of any reported failures due to a remap on these 08 -10 engines?

Theres little or no benefit just changing the 2nd cat pipe without programming the ecu really
No failures reported to date of ones custom remapped, other than mine which was fuel quality issues.

So what is it that Subaru cant seem to get right that the 3rd party mappers can? surely you would have thought that Subaru would have been very conservitve with the stock map even after the update i still read threads with engine failure.

I suppose the question is what are the mappers changing that Subaru arent?

The main thing is that the mappers make a custom map just for your car with it's own foibles and any bits you have fitted like air filters / induction kits and exhausts etc. Any inherent problems would be raised,discussed and worked around, e.g. poor air flow or fuelling, det etc. which may be caused by production variations.

So the map is tailored to your engine as it is.
The PPP is an average of cars with the bits fitted that come in a PPP kit... i.e. back box and 2nd cat delete pipe... and exchange ECU / reflash PPP map, created when Prodrive were preparingteh PPP for the hatch.

Excellent, you gotta love typing on an iphone!!!

Yes, it is indeed 345bhp. haha

No one else noticed!!!! hehe

vulnax wrote:

No one else noticed!!!! hehe

Noticed yes but out of sympathy i didn't like to say anything

LOL

Poor wee lamb ...


all better now